Judah Smith isn't shying away from controversy-but he's making it clear he has no intention of fighting the battles many expect him to.
Appearing on Lecrae's "Deep End" podcast, the Churchome pastor delivered one of his most revealing interviews yet, making a series of candid admissions about Justin Bieber, celebrity ministry, former Mars Hill pastor Mark Driscoll, criticism from fellow Christians, and why he believes the Church has become distracted from Jesus.
Perhaps the interview's most surprising moment came when Smith turned the narrative surrounding his friendship with Justin Bieber upside down.
Rather than portraying himself as Bieber's spiritual mentor, Smith confessed that the Grammy-winning superstar has profoundly shaped his own faith.
"I have learned more about Jesus and more about God from Justin Bieber than I've ever taught him," Smith said.
Smith explained that watching Bieber carry the enormous weight of worldwide fame has given him a deeper appreciation for humility, repentance, and dependence on Christ. He even recalled praying years ago, "If this doesn't work for Justin Bieber, this gospel, then it doesn't work," reasoning that the message of Jesus must be just as powerful for someone who seemingly has everything as it is for someone searching for hope.
The pastor also challenged the widespread perception that he intentionally pursues celebrities.
"I don't think I'm called to celebrities," Smith said. "I'm called to people who feel far from God."
According to Smith, relationships with high-profile figures such as Bieber developed naturally through years of trust rather than strategic networking. He argued that celebrity is simply another mission field-not a ministry goal.
Smith also addressed why he has increasingly avoided weighing in publicly on divisive political and cultural debates, including issues such as LGBTQ discussions and abortion.
Calling himself "a Jesus guy" and "a root guy," Smith argued that too many Christians have become preoccupied with the "branches" of cultural issues while neglecting the "root" of the gospel.
"If I can keep the main thing the main thing," he explained, "the root will take care of the leaves."
He acknowledged holding personal convictions on difficult issues but insisted that his primary calling is proclaiming Christ rather than becoming known for political commentary.
The conversation also revisited Smith's relationship with former Mars Hill pastor Mark Driscoll, who once mentored and encouraged him.
While expressing gratitude for Driscoll's kindness during earlier seasons of ministry, Smith revealed that he ultimately rejected what he viewed as a leadership style built around publicly calling out other pastors and ministries by name.
"I don't believe the Bible gives us precedent to call other ministries out by name in our sermons," Smith said, explaining that he wants his ministry to build unity rather than division.
In another deeply personal moment, Smith admitted that one of the most painful experiences of his ministry came when someone he considered a spiritual father later asked to be placed on his payroll.
Although Smith stopped short of naming the individual, he said the experience permanently altered the way he approaches mentoring relationships.
"It damaged me," he admitted.
Smith also surprised listeners with his honesty about his personal life, revealing that he and his wife had argued the night before the interview. After being confronted about his own selfishness, he joked that he even turned to ChatGPT the following morning asking whether something was wrong with him.
Far from presenting himself as having all the answers, Smith repeatedly described himself as broken, flawed, and continually dependent on God's grace.
Adding another unexpected twist, Smith announced during the conversation that he has a Netflix project in development, news that even Lecrae admitted he had not anticipated hearing live on the podcast.
Despite touching on celebrity friendships, criticism, politics, and church leadership, Smith said his mission has become remarkably simple.
Citing research suggesting that around half of Americans say they would never attend church, he declared that he wants to spend the rest of his life reaching those who believe they are too far from God.
"I want to spend the rest of my career talking to people who feel far from God," Smith said.
For Smith, every conversation-whether with celebrities, skeptics, or longtime churchgoers-ultimately comes back to the same message: keeping Jesus at the center.
